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49 responses so far ↓
Betsy // January 9, 2007 at 10:59 am
Originally Posted Jan 3, 4:36 PM
As I read Gen 3 this morning I was struck by verse 6–the furit was good for food/pleasing to the eye and desireable for wisdom–what’s wrong with those things–how often do we judge things the same way–it meets a need, it pleasing–how can something that feels good be so wrong–it helps me–it has to be ok–we fall into so much sin using this criteria–how often I have heard–”how can something that seems so right, that feels so good, be so wrong”–no wonder we need to be born again–and learn God’s criteria.
Debbie Herbert // January 9, 2007 at 11:00 am
Originally Posted Jan 7, 5:14 PM
It would be helpful if there were a “print” feature on these pages so that we could print out nice looking pages for our group…
Jennie Cesario // January 9, 2007 at 11:01 am
Originally Posted Jan 8, 12:31 AM
I believe the problem with understanding Genesis 1 is in a simple overlooking of a simple but crucial issue: How we tell time. Today it seems simple – but that’s because we have the benefit of a relatively fixed orbit around a fixed star; that was not the case as God created the universe initially. Without that fixed orbit around a fixed object – we would not be able to decipher time. Time itself is determined by an observer on earth judging earth’s relation to another fixed object in the galaxy/universe. Depending on whether you use our sun, or another star, or some other point – you have a different time (hence why there are different celebrations of New Year’s Day depending on your culture).
Consider the events happening during creation. For a great while – nothing was fixed; everything was in motion. There essentially was no real way to tell time. An observer on earth would have no fixed point to determine earth’s motion in relation to something else. It was all moving. It was much MUCH later in the history of creation that we had the concept 24 hour days – 24 hours in relation to our orbit around the sun. The earth has slowed down over time, too – a day used to be FASTER than 24 hours, early in earth’s history.
Put yourself on any other planet in the galaxy – or even outside our galaxy – and your method of telling time is different – based on using a fixed object near where you are.
As Einstein said, “Time is relative.”
So God is trying to essentially explain to us what happened, from His and our perspective views points, without a hard and fast method of actually telling time. We basically have no way to know how much time it really took because the method of telling time – fixed bodies in space – hadn’t happened yet. Twenty-four hour days did not exist yet and would not be the same from any other perspective in the universe.
And now we can start to see how it is that God exists “eternally.” He is outside of time – being in a different relation to any and all objects in the universe. To Him – its all relative. Time really is a flexible issue, depending on where God places Himself in the universe.
Betsy // January 9, 2007 at 11:02 am
Originally Posted Jan 8, 4:39 AM
Jennie–I can still remember hearing Tony Campolo give a talk where he used science to prove eternity. We are so limited in our knowleged. I think Jack at one point said something like scripture is clear (wrong word–but I am brain dead) enough to be believeable–and yet unclear enough to demand faith. I beleive when we are no longer looking dimly through a glass–both science and scripture will be in perfect harmony.
Carol // January 9, 2007 at 11:03 am
Originally Posted Jan 8, 8:11 AM
Thank you for the explations re: connection to Cain and reasons for God’s anger at His world. I did not make that connection in past readings.
Betsy // January 9, 2007 at 11:04 am
Originally Posted Jan 8, 10:31 AM
Two thoughts–first is on the intermarriage between the descendants of Seth/Abel and the descendants of Cain–and how this weakened the influence of good/God on the earth: Paul calls us to not be unequally yoked–marriages between Christians and Non-Christians today also weakens the influence of God–how very important it is that we are bringing our children up in the Lord–but also how we are teaching them the importance of finding a Christian spouse. It is extemely important that we have non-christian relationships but we need to make sure that we are the salt in those relationships and not let the relationships drag us down–this is where I need some strong Christians to keep me accountable.
A second comment–I had never really noticed how much work God gave Noah to do–he was to keep the animals alive–and provide for them. Like Adam and Eve in the Garden who were to be stewards of the Garden–so Noah was to care for creation. Despite our cultures (and my all to often–attention to leisure)–God seems to be into work and stewardship, though without the frustration that comes because of the “fall”.
It is so good to know that God notices the one in the midst of so many–and responds–it is good to know that God notices details.
Betsy // January 9, 2007 at 11:04 am
Originally Posted Jan 8, 10:39 AM
By the way–for those reading Job–my biggest is challenge is knowing that the friends are using all the wrong arguements with Job–and that Job doesn’t even get the big picture–is to shift through the verses and discover what are good arguements and which ones are the ones we so naturally use–but are wrong.
Steve Vance // January 9, 2007 at 11:05 am
Originally Posted Jan 8, 7:11 PM
This is a GREAT addition to our Church!
Thanks to all who are making it happen.
Jennie Cesario // January 9, 2007 at 12:20 pm
The account of Noah contains the saddest statement in all of Scripture. God actually confesses that, of all He’s created, He’s actually sorry He created Mankind. Genisis 6:6 “…the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.” We are the one creation that He was largely disappointed in…apart from His other disappointment: one third of the angels. Later on in Scripture we hear God say, “I have made – and I will bear” which is God’s way of telling us that He will still deal with us and help us – if we’re willing to take His help. Of Jesus Christ, God the Father enthusiastically says, “This is My beloved Son – in whom I am well pleased.” Without Christ, we are doomed to disappoint God. With Christ, “…the Lord lifts up His countenance upon on us, and gives us peace.”
How great is our Salvation!
Consequently, if you’ll notice – God never did give the fallen angels another chance. Salvation was never extended to them – just to the descendants of Adam. This is why, I personally believe, that satan and the fallen angels hate Mankind so much – we were offered a second chance and they weren’t. Scripture even comments on the very same thing in the New Testament, “…things that angels have desired to look into – but they have been given to you.”
As King David said, “What is Man that You are mindful of him?” The simple truth of the matter is that we are made in the very image of God Himself. Angels cannot say the same.
Jennie Cesario // January 9, 2007 at 1:55 pm
On Job. I could literally comment all day long on the Book of Job. I have pages and pages and pages of notes. I’m not sure any other book in the Bible contains as much information as this one does. I’m told it is likely the earliest written work in Scripture – possibly pre-dating even Genesis (which was penned by Moses). If this is true – how appropriate that it contains the first things God wanted us to know!
The overall message to me in this book is one of great comfort – and great respect for God. What this books tells me primarily is that even satan is under God’s control – even in his rebellious state. That’s comforting. The DIScomforting part is that God still allows satan to cause us harm…but this harm brings about a spiritual state that God ultimately needs us to be in.
I call it the “Willy Wonka” analogy. There is, in my opinion, a good deal of good theology in the original movie. Think about it: Willy Wonka (God) has this beautiful kingdom that was once open to people, but, because of abuse towards Mr. Wonka, has been closed for many many years to outside visitors. Yet, being lonely, and caring about people, he wants to allow a chosen few access to him and his kingdom – inheriting all that he has. But he has to find the few and the truly worthy to inherit what he has. He needs a way to prove them to be faithful. So what happens??? In each scene where someone is fortunate enough to score a “golden ticket” we immediately see a terribly shady character immediately appear and whisper something unknown into the ear of each child. He is trying to get them to trade away their golden ticket! He is, in effect, doing what satan does – he is trying to get the kids to give up their chance at the Wonka kingdom, for something else. We find out later that he is actually employed for Willy Wonka – and that that was his job all along….to provide temptation to do wrong, for those who would take it, so Willy Wonka would know who would NOT trade his kingdom for something cheaper and less valuable. It proved beyond a shadow of a doubt who would not sell out. This character – like Satan in the book of Job – had the ear of God, and was expected to return and give a full report on what happened – which we see happen twice in the book of Job. And yet Job would not be broken, would not sell out on his ticket to God’s heavenly kingdom….for a more peaceful time on earth. And God rewarded Job for his faithfulness – as Willy Wonka rewarded the one remaining faithful child (who did sin but confessed his sin) with all that he had.
Job did not sell out – though all the powers of Hell were arrayed against him. That is a powerful first lesson for God to provide in the Bible.
Jennie Cesario // January 9, 2007 at 2:36 pm
“Simon, Simon! Indeed Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” Luke 22:31.
Jesus was warning Peter in this verse, that Satan was about to put him through problems – but that in the end, when it was all said and done – this would be a source of strength to his fellow Christians. Notice please that Jesus didn’t make any attempt to STOP Satan from doing what he knew was about to happen. Jesus allowed it. Because it taught Peter something that he could then teach to others. Jesus knew before it happened that Peter would do the worst thing a Christian can do – deny Christ; three times.
Satan asked for Job, too – and sifted him. We have a very detailed account of all that that entailed.
Satan asks for each of us, too – by name. What will we do when he asks for us and God allows him into our lives? Will we pass our given tests?? Will we fail? Will we walk away from God for a time, to return later – stronger and more wise later on?
Later, after Jesus’ resurrection, we see Jesus sitting next to Peter on the shore of the Sea of Gaillee. Jesus, in His resurrected state, has returned to have breakfast with His friends. Peter is now about to be fully restored. Jesus asks him for 3 confessions – to replace the 3 denials he was guilty of the night before Jesus was crucified.
All things work together for the good of them that believe. How true this is. Even Satan has his role to play – unpleasant as it is, in your life – and that’s okay with God. Learn not to fear it.
Years ago when I was 18 I had a dream. In it I was standing in a great light from heaven. I had a Bible in my lap. As I read four words from Scripture, I heard God speak as I read: “Don’t fear the lion.”
The devil, as a roaring lion, roams about seeking whom he may devour. Resist him and he will flee from you.
Amen.
Jennie Cesario // January 9, 2007 at 2:53 pm
“….sift you as wheat.” Luke 22:31.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.” John 12:24.
Jennie Cesario // January 9, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Betsy – an interesting side note about Job’s friends.
All of the locations mentioned in Job are in Sumeria (the precursor to the Babylonian Empire). All three of Job’s friends are living in Sumeria. Temanites in particular (of which Eliphaz was one) – had the reputation of producing very wise teachers of the religion of Sumeria: the goddess Innana. Inanna labeled herself the “Queen of Heaven” and as the source of all wisdom. These three friends of Job’s likely had a totally different religion than Job’s – making their interpretations of Job’s troubles, totally useless. In their religion, when Innana was unhappy – she brought trouble into people’s lives, as punishment.
Notice that no location for Elihu is given (as Melchizidek’s was not given). His ancestry is mentioned though. Likely closer to Job as a Hebrew – he presents the concept of a Hebrew mediator between God and Man….a possible Scriptural prophecy of the Jewish Messiah who would be coming to stand between God and Man and negotiate successfully between both sides.
Notice that the other religions failed to settle the problem between Job and God.
Betsy // January 9, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Hi all–we are still trying to perfect this site so keep the suggestions coming-
Debbie–if you go to section that has the whole week’s lesson–there is a print feature for that file–otherwise I think you need to cut and paste–I will ask about there being a better way–we are discussing the best format for notes.
Jennie–never knew that about Job’s friends–I have never really studied the book indeptht–will be interested in what Jerry Newell teaches next Wed.
Debbie Herbert // January 21, 2007 at 7:27 am
Betsy,
This study is so great! Our small group is following along and we meet to discuss Adam and Noah tonight. I am quite excited to see their responses to this study. Your commentaries are SO terrific! I think you all should publish this in one comprehensive book at the end of the year. I would certainly value having this as an addition to my library! Thank you for all you are doing to keep the mission alive at Glenkirk. Bill & I are not only praying for the church as a whole but for you personally. We can only imagine the increased responsibilities you have at this time! Peace.
Betsy // January 22, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Thank Debbie
Beth Johnson // April 7, 2007 at 9:57 am
I just wanted to express my appreciation for the Walk Through the Bible lessons and small group discussion questions. I meet with a group of ladies twice a week at lunch for Bible study and I’ve been sharing this material with them. It’s been wonderful. Thank you so very much!
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